You grew up in Paris, studied law, and became a corporate lawyer for telecom companies. How did you end up in this field?
Back in 1994, when I started, telecommunications was very different from what it is today. It was an exciting time. All the infrastructure you take for granted now had to be built at some point, and we were in the middle of that. I didn’t plan this career, it is just where life took me, and I loved it. I was involved in two startups from their beginning. They were backed by larger companies, but the spirit of a small team that wants to conquer the world was palpable, nonetheless. I also worked for a company that had been set up in the 1970s to design and implement telecom networks in places where no other similar company had set foot before and which had developed a business selling software to telcos around the world. I loved working with these very different kinds of tough guys who were all pioneers in their own way and in their own time. I dealt with many different legal aspects of business and was in constant contact with all the departments of the companies I was working for, from technical staff to marketing, HR, communication … I was an enabler, not a lawyer saying no but someone trying to find a solution for what business wanted to do.

You progressed rapidly and became Head of Legal before the age of 30. In 2000, you joined LDCOM, a small company that later became Neuf Cegetel and did an initial public offering valued at EUR 4.6 billion, the third biggest in France at that time, which was oversubscribed 15 times. Sounds like you were in the right place at the right time.
It was an incredible adventure. Again, it wasn’t a garage-type of a startup. We’ve received initial funding from Louis-Dreyfus Group, which had a knack for very opportunistic investments at that time. They were engaged in every industry imaginable, from foie gras to telecom. They would provide seed funding and assemble a team, and then put a lot of trust in it to execute. And execute we did. I was General Counsel and that’s where I met my husband who was one the founders. We started by laying telecom fibers along French rivers, and with Neuf Cegetel, built a brand everyone knew. We bought more than a dozen other companies and quickly became the second-biggest operator and challenger to France Telecom. We also had to look for funding by bringing other investors on board. Nowadays, you would call such a successful company a unicorn. At that time, when you had such a successful IPO, the French bankers would just say you were a “fucking Picasso”. (Laughs.)

What brought you to Zurich?
My husband moved to Switzerland for business reasons, and initially, I resisted moving as well. Since we both worked like crazy, that worked out well for a while. But when our daughter was born, we wanted to bring the family together, and with a heavy heart, I quit Neuf Cegetel. It was tough, starting from scratch in a country where I didn’t know anyone, without a job. I felt the need to work again and started practicing law as an independent lawyer, but it didn’t fit me. You’re not part of a team, in the middle of the action and decision-making, and that’s what I liked most about being a corporate lawyer. So I started to develop other interests, still doing work but not of the salaried kind.

Investing in startups is one of your interests. Where does that come from?
I didn’t grow up in a family where investing was a topic. But I had shares in Neuf Cegetel and that was kind of my first successful exit. My first investment in a private company was actually investing in a colleague I liked a lot. Then a friend of mine introduced me to a Swiss business angel club. I attended events, had fun listening to interesting young companies, and discovered that you could invest small amounts in startups. Later, I found out about Verve Ventures and I do most of my investments through Verve Ventures now. I think the team does a good job at assessing startups and at helping them succeed.

What have you learned from this experience?
From my time working in startups, I have understood that success depends on the ability of the team to adapt to the challenges and opportunities that arise and on the ability of investors to accompany these necessary changes in strategy. In my activities as an investor, I had to deal with good and not so good situations, and they taught me that the most important thing is a strong team that knows how to generate strong support. I am looking for startups with a core team that combines technical, sales and financial expertise. I wouldn’t back single founders anymore. Also, startups need a strong support environment to succeed, a good network in their industry, and committed investors who help them. I try to diversify and invest small amounts in many different startups. It alleviates my stress about the risks of investing in startups and fits with my desire to support all kinds of businesses. I experienced everything from bankruptcies to extremely successful exits. But in the end, this strategy has worked quite well for me so far.

How different is startup investing from investing in the stock market?
Investing in mainstream financial markets feels more like a casino. Stock prices are not only driven by the results that companies achieve, but also by short-term speculation. Financial products aren’t the best way to support the real economy and the companies that create value. I like to support companies that have a positive impact on their industry and sometimes even on the world, companies that solve problems and are successful because of it. That’s why I love investing in startups. You know where the money goes and for what. Another reason is that it takes a lot of courage and dedication to start an innovative company, and I want to encourage such entrepreneurs.

Do you prefer to invest in specific industries or topics?
I don’t have a focus on certain topics, I’m interested in all kinds of startups, no matter if they are in the field of biotech, SaaS or hardware. When I read the documentation Verve Ventures provides, it just either clicks or doesn’t. If the topic appeals to me, I dig deeper and look closely at the competition section. I don’t care much about the financial projections because we all know that more often than not startups end up in a different place than they initially planned. Customer needs and markets change, and the best teams are those who are able to adapt to such change.

“Women need to be empowered to try startup investing.”

According to a recent poll among 8000 men and women published by BNY Mellon, 45% of women say the stock market is too risky for them. Less than 28% feel confident investing some of their money. Arguably investing in startups is even riskier than investing in the stock market. Only 9% of women report that they have a high or very high level of risk tolerance when it comes to investing. What are your thoughts on this?
Everyone depends on their capital to live and save for retirement, so it’s natural to have a low risk tolerance. This is probably even more true for women. But I think there are bigger hurdles that keep women who would be ready to take risks from investing in startups. First, and as already mentioned, if you’re not familiar with this world, you might think that you need to put several hundred thousand in a single startup – something I would never do. When I started investing, I thought that an investment of a few tens of thousands of euros would not be significant at all and not taken seriously. So, we need to tell women, and men too, actually, that even if they make small investments, they will be part of a startup’s financing round on the same terms as people who invest a lot more, and they will make a difference. Another thing is that women must take control of their money. I don’t mean managing a budget and being financially independent. I mean feeling entitled and legitimate to dispose of their
money, to put it at risk, to make it work for them. What is more, women need to be empowered to try startup investing.

Why is that?
It is a broad statement, I know, but we women often think that we’re not good enough or don’t know enough or won’t be taken seriously. Take the example of a promotion in a company. Most men will say yes to it straight away, while a woman’s first thought will be “Am I competent enough to do that?”. Women need to overcome this self-doubt in general, and in the investment world in particular. The message they need to hear is that they don’t need to be experts in financial markets or technology to invest. In the case of investing in startups, there are structures to support your first steps and allow you to learn. Verve is a good place to start. You can learn from other investors and from the team who are very dedicated, helpful and friendly.

At Verve Ventures, we’re taking great care to present the documents about the technology a startup uses and their business model as simple as possible, but no simpler than that. Do you think language is a barrier too? In the study I mentioned before, 37% of women said that if investment language were easier to understand, it would influence them to invest, or to invest more than they currently do.
I don’t think that the main problem is the language. Of course, you must get familiar with new concepts which can be tricky, but that is the case with any activity you start. The way Verve presents startups is clearly understandable. I think that this answer expresses more the lack of confidence and legitimacy I mentioned earlier, as well as the difficulty in finding out how to access the necessary information and knowledge. Again, you must feel comfortable enough to dare to ask your questions. Women need to be empowered to understand the core concepts of investing, and then they won’t be deterred by the details. And, once again, they need to know that they will be taken seriously as investors.

As a female investor, do you actively seek to invest more in female founders?
I’m happy to see more and more female founders, but I don’t judge founding teams based on their gender. There is a generational shift going on. Women were expected to prioritize stability in their life plan. Creating a startup and working day and night for something that might very well go bankrupt after a few years doesn’t contribute to anything in such a life plan. But things have changed, and there are more role models for female entrepreneurs now. It seems to me that the new generation of women is more independent, more self-assured, and more in control of their lives, more ready to take on professional risks and more motivated to fulfil their dreams and do their own thing. And honestly, I like that.